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Next Year's EPL Competition Scoring Changes

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Next Year's EPL Competition Scoring Changes

Postby SkyyWalker » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:09 pm

All I ask SW is that you (and others) do not slip back into the incorrect original view that creating and running a smooth Comp is quick and easy. (especially in the initial stages of setting up a season, its fixtures and writing a spreadsheet to support points allocation scenarios.

:Smiley111: OK folks bring on your suggestions. Sooner the better please. - Draco


One thing for sure is that next year's scoring system won't be the same as this year's points scheme. I understand your request, Draco, that more than 10 points can't be awarded as it won't work in the spreadsheet that your familiar with. Is that correct? Please correct me if I misunderstood you.

However, after participants have made suggestions and perhaps a vote has occurred, there is a possibility that the voted upon points system does allow a player to be awarded more than 10 points in a game. I say that because the scheme I'm going to propose does. If that happens, of course you will not be responsible, Draco, for being the dude who keeps track of the competition. Anyway, one of the ways I think it should work is that participants should be awarded whatever point total is allotted for a correct result - let's say 7 points regardless of point differential - but also get credit for the number of goals scored on top of that if the outcome and score is spot on. In other words, if anyone had guessed correctly any of the three 4-0 matches last week, they would receive 11 points. Also, I feel that if a player doesn't at least get the winner right, they shouldn't be awarded a point just for guessing the goal total for 1 team. Predicting Stoke will beat Leicester 1-0 and the ends 1-4 hardly justifies a point.

As you recall, I favor a scoring system that rewards accuracy. Last week, Admin predicted that a total of 13 goals would be scored for the week. In actuality, 29 goals were scored, yet Admin was able to accrue 25 points! WTF? And yes, thanks for acknowledging the flaw relating to predicting draws and, no, it's not any consolation to know that if the current scoring system was more "accurate", I would already be in 2nd place, mere points behind AB! :Smiley183:

Anyway, what I think is most important is that participants at least voice their opinion about the current scoring system and, if so desired, post an entirely new scheme. What emerges as the future system will be a democratic process, but we need something to vote on first!
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Re: Next Year's EPL Competition Scoring Changes

Postby Draco » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:35 pm

This was you post when I answered

PicPick Image 001 (08-04-2016).jpg



SkyyWalker wrote: All I ask SW is that you (and others) do not slip back into the incorrect original view that creating and running a smooth Comp is quick and easy. (especially in the initial stages of setting up a season, its fixtures and writing a spreadsheet to support points allocation scenarios.

:Smiley111: OK folks bring on your suggestions. Sooner the better please. - Draco


One thing for sure is that next year's scoring system won't be the same as this year's scoring scheme.


Scott, I have just seen this. Seems we currently have 2 EPL organizers.

Please may I ask as you have pre-empted my intention to do a new post with my intended/suggested points Scenario that you kindly also copy the IMPORTANT salient posts across from the topic "EPL Competition Leader Board Positions after Latest Round" that relate to and outline the new system I proposed and explained, instead of a tiny extract with no details which makes it look like no scenario has been produced and on the table for next season. These are important as they refer to logic and what is easy to adjust and what is not if my Spreadsheet is to be used.

If I did not know better I'd think you have a System in mind and its not the one I am proposing, coz after posting my system, you almost immediately invited suggestions from everybody (something I had not done), and now you are asking for ideas in a new Topic whilst leaving out the System I have worked on and proposed

May I ask if you planning to take back the running of the EPL Competition next season. I ask because previously you were not happy to create any system, then you were not happy running the EPL Competition after a few rounds, saying you would pull the plug if people were not interested in taking over. I offered to take over for the rest of the season and only the other day I offered to run a new Competition next season. Now you seem eager to get involved and steer the new system.

Please advise me and others of your intentions and desires if you don't like the one I proposed.
Thank you

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Re: Next Year's EPL Competition Scoring Changes

Postby SkyyWalker » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:52 pm

I simply wanted to focus the discussion on a single thread. As you requested, the sooner or better. Do I intend to run the next competition? God, I hope not! Baseball, perhaps. Soccer, hell no. For the pleasure of the forum and to show I'm not trying to drown out your revised system, Draco, here's my best shot at copying what you posted before. Correct it if necessary.



"Here are some comments for you and others to reflect on and consider.

1) I wish to restate that the Points scenarios I have proposed are based on factual stats from 3 EPL stats which were analysed and discussed in depth by Admin and myself but I appreciate our interpretations of points to allocated are open to interpretation.I appreciate that any season may differ but I cannot think of a better method to mirror as best as possible reality whilst allowing participants to feel they are progressing and can catch others.

2) The scenarios for Correct Result and Goal Difference by Admin was IMHO inspired as it gave wrong exact forecasters to still score well even if exact score was not predicted. Additionally the TOKEN single point for one team's goals scored being correct when everything else was wrong was also a good idea of his to avoid participants in poorer weeks just racking up ZEROS.
I would suggest SW adjusting Competition for reflect greater accuracy only would heavily reduce points awarded, and have a consequential negative effect on participants' ongoing enthusiasm, even if more accurate.

3) Admin and I had considered an idea (I put forward) of minus points for way out incorrect scores. e.g. prediction 2-1 and was 4-0 or Predicting a Home win and it is an Away win. Out thinking was that too many minus points scenarios would have a negative affect on the players and better to give good points for accurate or near misses. Wouldn't what a person on -12 after a few rounds would we?

4) A danger Admin pointed out that too many points scenarios would become cumbersome to understand and navigate for Participators not to mention to program.

5) IF people wish me to run a 2016/17 Competition then any points scenario suggestions should fit into the framework of my new Beta sheet's. If people wish to come up with complex scenarios that do not, then regretfully it will down to others to create a spreadsheet and run the competition, because the major work involved in the Competition is setting up formulae and testing and usability and my new Beta spreadsheet has already been completed (and mostly tested by me) with these in mind.

I believe in democracy so opinions are welcomed and will be considered IF I am to run the next Competition WITH ONE PROVISO any scenarios to be adopted are limited to a maximum 10 points scenarios (excluding late prediction submissions penalty points) BECAUSE my new Beta spreadsheet has been completely rewritten so I can adjust the 10 points allocation scenarios and text WITHOUT needing to adjust any formulae in the spreadsheet itself. I did this work in the new Beat sheet to avoid the risk of formulae errors creeping in , the need for extensive pre testing as I can easy change the scenarios AND points allocation for those scenarios (including - points). subject to the 10 scenario limit I have based the beta spreadsheet on.

To Prove This: My sample images earlier show this.
I merely changed my new Beta Spreadsheet's points allocation section to match the 2015/15 points scenario in only a few minutes and got the same results as the current original Spreadsheet for the current 2015/16 Competition (no formulae or macro adjustments were needed)

I have spent hours and hours trying to improve the Competition scenarios to better reflect reality and being 100% honest I think it would not be easy to get much closer but if some have some ideas tell em a.s.a.p (as I said I would not wish to rewrite formulae and functionality of the Beta Spreadsheet). Already I have had to adjust my Original 2015/16 Spreadsheet and my new Beta for 2016/17 to cater for:
1) unexpected late predictions (with -5 penalty)
2) cleaning up if a person pulls out.
3) (Postponed Games and consequential later rounds having more than 10 games per round as a result.

All I ask SW is that you (and others) do not slip back into the incorrect original view that creating and running a smooth Comp is quick and easy. (especially in the initial stages of setting up a season, its fixtures and writing a spreadsheet to support points allocation scenarios.

:Smiley111: OK folks bring on your suggestions. Sooner the better please." - Draco
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Re: Next Year's EPL Competition Scoring Changes

Postby Draco » Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:28 am

Scott, I thank you for adding my suggested Scenario but without without the various Points images it does not make complete sense.

As you posted whilst I was posting I have deleted my second post when I saw your second post.

However, I do feel you have attempted to usurp decision making of the EPL Comp.that I was under the mistaken impression (although this is your Forum) the EPL Comp. was not yours. First it was E-Zs before you closed down the Forum for two months, then Admin was invited to create a Competition (I tested for him), then you ran it for a few weeks and then wanted out. It then became my responsibility if you were not to pull the plug. I suggested a new Comp for next season that I was willing to run, explaining a different points allocation to cater for weaknesses in the first (bas don the last 3 seasons). I gave reasons why I felt the point system I wished to offer was a good one.
====

IF I understand your INITIAL suggestions/ideas, then of course I agree they may well be more accurate, but at what price?
Many people getting few points and IMO losing interest. Getting points keeps enthusiasm ongoing I believe. If you wish to award points for actual scores and number of correct goals then I feel desperate players will risk big scores and mostly be disappointed. Others, guessing correctly lower scores may see their leads wiped out by one or two lucky or good BIG goal scoring risk takers.I THAT FAIR I ask?
You may not like the Goal Difference idea but it gave recognition for correct result predictions where predictors gave the correct closeness (GD) of the matches.
If you rewards for goals scored then you may finish with a person who got the most results exactly correct being being beaten by a person who took risks and picked up more goal points.

If you felt the points allocated on my intended new system was too close correct exact result and result correct GD then I could have easily increased the points gap between exact results and Result and correct GD.
The ONE point for getting one team's goals correct and nothing else was just a tiny token SW. I wondered about Zero and MINUS points for getting everything wrong. The minus idea I tested out and after 2 weeks one or two players in my test sheet would have had min u points. I decided give more points for good predictions rather than (negatively) take points away for bad guesses.

====

Back to my offering for Next Season (now withdrawn)
I felt I had offered members a new, and better competition for next season, supported and adjusted based on Admin's and my analysis of the 3 most recent season EPL stats and one that would keep interest going.
I was not aware that everything happening on the Forum has to be subject to open debate. The decision would have been at the end of the day the members as they would join the new comp. or not. Although I did not invite suggestions until Scott (deliberately IMO) forced my hand, I would of course have accepted and considered suggestions that could be easily adopted. I wasn't aware that when one offers members something on the Forum, it has to be discussed before we are allowed to run it. There are various other aspects of the Forum decided upon and opinions not asked for first. Only very recently Admin has launched two nice topics: a Word game and an Image Hunt. Should that have been discussed first? Of course not.

I feel Scott you have taken over and invited a free for all of opinion which I had not offered as I felt I had adequately tweaked scenarios to replace the one I was running and nobody had complained about the current one (admittedly you had commented on an issue or two). OK, it may not be democratic but people had the choice to enter or not. No one is forcing them to play.

Anyway moving on (I am sure I am repeating myself -sorry ).

My immediate family have a depressing and difficult major ongoing Private issue currently in my life, but nevertheless I was happy and willing to cope with the EPL Comp. on behalf of everybody. With what has gone on here regarding my prospective next season EPL Comp I have completely lost enthusiasm.

Consequently I have decided the following:

1) I will NOT run the EPL Competition NEXT Season.

2) I am CEASING my running and participation of THIS season's it this season from today. (ever heard of "cause and effect" Scott)

I am REALLY SORRY guys. I know I am letting you all down.. Scott is the Boss of the EPL Comp. and there can only be one and I cannot continue the current comp. knowing Scott is undermining the one I and Admin had worked on for next season and I was offering you all.

No doubt Scott considers he has oversight/say on the current one and that the EPL Comp. is his. SO BE IT, but, this is something I cannot accept for either season as I have done all the work with Admin(hundreds of hours each) on both and considered it my or Admin's EPL Competition. IMHO Scott has never really appreciated the work and effort Admin and I have put in after he did the easy bit of saying he wanted a new Comp. to replace E-Zs defunct Competition which ended when the Forum was closed down for 2 months, yet he seems to want to control it.

b] Maybe Scott will be prepared to do the necessary for the rest of the season[/b]. I am sure he still has Admin's spreadsheet. I of course will obviously not be participating from now on.

3) I RESIGN from the Forum as of today as I feel it is a growing autocracy, rather than a Members' Forum which I thought it was intended to be as an alternative to another.
I think this will be good for the Forum I feel Scott has not been happy with me when not agreeing or posting the way he wishes (Songkran topic to name one recently and now my proposed EPL comp not being to his liking/decision process). I additionally do like being told to "chill out" when I defend his posts to me.

I ask all to respect my decisions (even if not liked or fully understood)

I think Scott's comments below say it all.

SkyyWalker wrote: As you recall, I favor a scoring system that rewards accuracy. Last week, Admin predicted that a total of 13 goals would be scored for the week. In actuality, 29 goals were scored, yet Admin was able to accrue 25 points! WTF? And yes, thanks for acknowledging the flaw relating to predicting draws and, no, it's not any consolation to know that if the current scoring system was more "accurate", I would already be in 2nd place, mere points behind AB! :Smiley183:

Anyway, what I think is most important is that participants at least voice their opinion about the current scoring system and, if so desired, post an entirely new scheme. What emerges as the future system will be a democratic process, but we need something to vote on first!


The comp as it stands (warts and all, had scenarios for all to see and use accordingly). Scott, however appears to feel a non existent set of rules I had proposed for next season should have been applied this season. Easy to say in Hindsight Scott. Only recently did Admin and I analyse 3 seasons for results to see flaws for sure. We actually realized the one you are upset about but it could not be changed mid competition.

I also wish to mention. NO complaints were made about the No Score Draw points allocation when Admin announced the points for the current Season. Anybody including you Scott could have made a case and strongly if so desired. It is easy to be all knowing with hind sight and many weeks of results to analyse and then see any flaws needing tweaking .

This was supposed a FUN competition I leave to others to decide if some take it more seriously than others.
At the end of the day the point scenario was the same FOR ALL and therefore fair for all. AB leads, MftS second fair and square because they predicted to date much better than everybody else according to the points scenarios laid down for the current season.

My FINAL comment Scott (why did I ever get involved - oh yes to help you out).
Had you written the rules and spreadsheet and run the competition you could have had exactly what rules you wanted and made sure they balanced correctly, and you would not had to rely on and bet let down by lesser mortals (me).
Oh no, sorry I forgot you couldn't have - coz you said:
SkyyWalker wrote:
Anyway, what I think is most important is that participants at least voice their opinion about the current scoring system and, if so desired, post an entirely new scheme. What emerges as the future system will be a democratic process, but we need something to vote on first!


So you may still get a system you do not like.

I bear you no animosity Scott but you have annoyed me on other occasions over this EPL Comp. (especially when Admin and I were working flat out to get it up and running FOR YOU) and THIS Topic is the final straw. So it good I'm leaving for you AND FOR ME. I will not discuss this topic or my actions further.

PEACE and good wishes to all :Smiley59:

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Re: Next Year's EPL Competition Scoring Changes

Postby SkyyWalker » Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:52 pm

All I have to say to you Draco is thanks for the effort, good luck in the future and you're welcome on the forum anytime if you wish to be.

The current season along with the current scoring system will continue until the end of the season at which point we'll collectively create a new system, or keep the current one. It depends on how people vote.
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Re: Next Year's EPL Competition Scoring Changes

Postby Draco » Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:33 pm

SkyyWalker wrote:All I have to say to you Draco is thanks for the effort, good luck in the future and you're welcome on the forum anytime if you wish to be.

The current season along with the current scoring system will continue until the end of the season at which point we'll collectively create a new system, or keep the current one. It depends on how people vote.


Delighted for the other guys you will see the Competition through to the end of season

I won't be back. Despite the words above, I know when my efforts and views are not truly appreciated, or welcome.

Time to move on :Smiley194:

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